Please stop the constant zoom-in/glide/close-ups

[TheVulture]

The Silvia Dellai and Kizzy Six scenes are practically ruined by the constant alternating between the profile shot, close-up of girl's face and close-up of penetration. It's impossible to relax with the scene due to this constant reframing. I want to see the majority of the scene shot in simple profile showing everything a la Giorgio and Gonzo (for the most part).

For sure use some close-up but use it sparingly and always allow the camera to rest in profile for long periods.

What's most frustrating is that the trailers obviously use a majority of profile shots so there is no clue of this before buying.

Personally I'm going to have to leave IV scenes alone for a while because of this. Fool me once, shame on you etc.

What do others think?

[TheVulture]

I just watched bits of the Kizzy Six scene again....from about 19 mins on - the bulk of the DAP - the scene is filmed pretty much entirely in long shots of close-up of penetration moving to close-up of face. There is maybe 15-20% profile shots here, all in very short clips.

This is beyond amateurish.

What is the point of the frequent close-up shots of her face!? We can see it perfectly adequately in profile!

[grimwolf77]

No man. Zoom ins of her chin while she's getting drilled gets my rocks off the hardest. What's your problem!

[joachim-kessef]

Are you sur about the same scene i dont zoom that much

[TheVulture]

Are you sur about the same scene i dont zoom that much

Hi Joachim.

Many thanks for the reply.

I actually went back to check some old IV scenes to see who directed them and also had a look to see who directed these new ones and was surprised to see that you directed all of them. I was convinced there must be a new director due to this sudden change in style.

It definitely is a new thing that you've started doing....perhaps subconsciously and maybe it doesn't feel like too much zoom when you're filming but trust me when watching the scenes it is really apparent. I guess some people might like it but I just like to see the girl in profile so I can see all of the action and her reaction at the same time so these new clips are genuinely infuriating.

The old style you had was perfect in my opinion. You need to regain your old filming mojo!

[dap-addict]

I actually went back to check some old IV scenes to see who directed them and also had a look to see who directed these new ones and was surprised to see that you directed all of them. I was convinced there must be a new director due to this sudden change in style.
(...)
The old style you had was perfect in my opinion. You need to regain your old filming mojo!

Its Joachim directing them all, but the cameraman isn't him because Joachim also performs.
And the cameraman must have changed recently.

I happen to have checked out some older and new IV scenes as well, and the zooming in has really become a pain.
On the contrary I detected some older scenes which are really much better than I though.
In new ones fucking has become really better in last 6months, but camera is a pain to watch.

[dap-addict]

edit:
And Joachim, please dont write again I hated your studio, but please have a look at the new zooming style. Read The Vulture if you dont wanna read me!
And please do sth about it!

[joachim-kessef]

About Vulture i checked the scene it not that zooming to show pissing sometime it good to emphase the pissing that effect to show what i want to show like you said in older scene there is no zooming it depend the theme pissing is probably show the action i will fix that I always answer people who bring appropriate and adequate critics about the subject please feel free to bring what you want about my movie so we can discuss i am open about that Vulture

About the guy who i am his obsession yes i said obsession yes how you can go to subject about one girl who works for me lying everywhere yes i will not speak about that she choose to publish what she want and you you didn't even heard my version or know what happened and you start to comment come on here it not tribunal or justice court we here to enjoy porn i always consider something which has nothing to do with porn should not mention here that is not the place
or if another person did really big shit to me even if the case is on investigation again i will not comment that case you choose again to comment
what relate you to this case ?tell me you was not even overthere why ?it doesn't nothing to do with porn if you want even speak about the truth you should know both version it was not the case and you choose to comment that and there are more like that is obsession man really man you dont need porno you something else i will said the name

when Vulture come about appropriate critics about that i pay attention he doesn't talk here about private things he come about critics about my movie something inside of course i am interest to improve not to insult me my physique or something else that is not movie critics after you want to answer you hell no keep put your obsession on me but i am not sur it will help your life
yes attack people on private things tell me what relate porn on something out of porn? answer me

[dap-addict]

joachim-kessef, check you PM.
Regarde le boite aux lettres!

[TheVulture]

Thanks for the reply Joachim.

dap-addict actually beat me to the point about you being in the Silvia Dellai and Kizzy Six scenes as I just noticed this when watching them earlier - I obviously wasn't paying enough attention before.

So I'm not sure if you are filming these scenes in part and then someone else takes over when you're in the scene but whoever it is holding the camera when you're performing is doing a very poor job and damaging what are otherwise very good scenes. I would seriously suggest you either ask them to stop doing all the "zoom in" stuff or (maybe even better) simply get someone else in with a better eye for the profile shot and who is more inclined to keep the camera still for long periods.

The most infuriating thing in these 2 scenes is when the camera moves from close up of penetration to close up of the girl's face without a profile shot in between. That's incredibly poor as it's basically moving across something you can't really take in. I could understand close-up penetration > profile > close-up face (or same in reverse) as that gives perspective on the action and is skillful in some regard but just hopping between close-ups is incredibly poor porn camerawork.

[TheVulture]

I don't want to be too negative but you can tell even from the Anastasia Rose trailer that it has also been filmed this way. Even in the trailer the bulk of the shots are close-ups of Anastasia's face and the penetration!

Basically IV is getting some of the best young porn girls out there, dressing them incredibly sexily, creating good quality sex action....and then filming the action in close-up. Such a waste.

I assume (and hope) that this scene was also shot before Joachim received the forum feedback.

But how many more scenes will they butcher before they get it right?

[dap-addict]

I don't want to be too negative but you can tell even from the Anastasia Rose trailer that it has also been filmed this way. Even in the trailer the bulk of the shots are close-ups of Anastasia's face and the penetration!

Basically IV is getting some of the best young porn girls out there, dressing them incredibly sexily, creating good quality sex action....and then filming the action in close-up. Such a waste.

I assume (and hope) that this scene was also shot before Joachim received the forum feedback.

But how many more scenes will they butcher before they get it right?

Agree!


I dont know why they do it that style and to be honest I am not sure Joachim understands what we talk about. And I am also not sure why he doesn't understand it.
Vulture, could you write here exactly when this starts, with which scene?
As I wrote for me already iv225 (Gisha Forza DAPbreakin') was in a similar style, so it would be almost 75 scenes already.

[joachim-kessef]

i really dont understand there is no ZOOM at all please show me

[dap-addict]

Its not about zoom, Joachim - Vulture doest know film terminology - but its about jumping from ass close-up to face close-up.
Jumping from ass close-up to face close-up and back to ass close-up again, and than face close-up on and on.
Very frustrating cameraman you have, creating frustrating porn film with great girls, sorry to say.

[tekaneo]

Its not about zoom, Joachim - Vulture doest know film terminology - but its about jumping from ass close-up to face close-up.
Jumping from ass close-up to face close-up and back to ass close-up again, and than face close-up on and on.
Very frustrating cameraman you have, creating frustrating porn film with great girls, sorry to say.

This.

Im going to say you it clearly Joaquim: 90% problems of your studio has is because 2 main reasons since you started on LP, mostly your low sales are because:

1º Your cameraman. You will never have a cameraman like Giorgio style or even new Giorgio Studio cameraman or Luis with your actual cameraman. Recommendation: fire your actual cameraman and get a better (much better) one to solve what your ppl is writing here: bad angles, zoom on body parts, not showing the rest of the body, not... do you need more? OR speak with Giorgio/Luis and try to get some advice from them to solve it or your scenes will be competing with DDF releases ( aka GlamPorn ).
2º Your guys have no blood in their body when they fuck the girls AKA: tip fucking, no passion AKA they show to the spectator a feel like "i'm here because Joaquim is paying me" and thats all but seems they dont even feel what they are doing. Recommendation: get new TALENTED guys or train them with your experience.

If you solve this you will be competing with the other main studios on LP or meanwhile your scenes remains where they should now on "Best Seller" webpage. Sorry if it sounds harsh but ppl are clearly saying it to you since day 1 you started but you are not hearing anything or you are evading all advices that ppl are writing on LP.

I hope it clears a big what is happening with your studio and scenes if you need it more clear, say it.

[joachim-kessef]

man i shot many scenes in my life what i can said is if people doesn't like i will leave me clearly i understand and read let said i dont know how i can please them
now we agree there is no zoom
but if the guy go to the face and go to anal he stay longer in action like to have face and ass the same time we do have it take longer anyway i did but so i will leave clearly

[kidloco2]

I don't know what are you trying to accomplish with this thread, tekaneo...
Point taken, no need to beat a dog to death...

Plus you clearly don't understand the difference between zoom in and dolly in (or reaching for close up shot), IMHO you have no
competent knowledge to evaluate any camera work.

[kidloco2]

sorry, was replying to OP

[TheVulture]

I explained it a little better in the Rebecca Sharon thread so I will reproduce that here:

The reason I call it "zoom" is that with the Silvia and Kizzy scenes, within the context of all the close-ups there are some very fleeing profile shots (this is what dap-addict refers to as "total shots showing all her body") but what happens is rather than hold these shots for any decent length of time the cameraman, yes, zooms back in to one of the close-ups (either penetration area or face) and then begins the sequence dap-addict describes (which I suppose you could describe as "gliding" rather than "zooming").

So basically lots and lots of glide (across close-up areas), very definitely some zoom and very, very little profile (shots of the whole body), meaning it's impossible to really take in the action.

This is by no means the first time I've come across porn scenes filmed this way. I've been consuming porn for about 20 years and it always happens on occasion. The "glide" thing is a little different though, because usually with this type of frustrating scene it would be lots of cuts from close-up of penetration to close-up of face (Harmony was particularly bad with this a few years ago). But it has never happened with IV before, which is why it's so frustrating and is making me wary of buying more IV scenes.

So whether you call it zoom, glide, whatever, the point is that the camera is focusing on close-up areas far too often. It's very apparent if you watch the scenes and trying to quibble about the terminology is just a pointless distraction IMHO. It's very easy to spot well filmed porn from badly filmed porn and these scenes are very much in the latter category.

[TheVulture]

I see I also copied a spelling error there....I mean "fleeting profile shots" in the first sentence there obviously.

[TheVulture]

Just edited the topic title to give a little more clarity.

But to be clear, the parts of the scene where the camera zooms in to close-up are the parts that most frustrate me, because these are the moments when the camera has just finally settled on the perfect profile shot but then infuriatingly only allows a very short time in this position before zooming in.

I understand the use of close-up and in scenes where I know that the close-up is followed by lengthy profile shots then I can enjoy the close-up. But where profile is so rarely and fleetingly used - as here - the close-up sections are rendered worthless because I can't place them in any context.

Hope this clarifies.

[kidloco2]

Now I understand you better. If there's enough footage of both full and close-up shots, the balance can be easily done in the editing.

[joachim-kessef]

hi
what you describe Vulture and dap-addict complete that we do that i never zoom let say if you put the girl in doggy position and the man over her
you will see her face and ass pounding then you show the face to emphase what she is feeling then you detail penetration and you back the to the entire action then we hold that all times you need to give various angle i can not shot the hole movies that way only the action i need to provide close up and emphase the sex action then move to hole action i can not stay longer in the same place now i did explain you i am keeping explain you anyway like i said if our fans are complaining it better to stop filming it mean the dont like and i have that freedom too like our fans the also have that freedom to leave but keep explain the same everyday doesn't help i would like to have to talk about many things like i brought one guy nobody pay attention to that or how we emphasis Sindy rose kinky way nobody care only the same things we will see i am ready to leave

[dap-addict]

Joachim, I really appreciate all the love and care and commitment you put into your scenes.
But all your high commitment styling and sex is getting presented in an often very frustrating way because your cameraman films the sex the way he films it. And I really ask you to have a look at the way Luis and Giorgio/Andrey film their scenes.
I dont want you to make exactly the same, but your cameraman could learn from them for sure, also because they just sell their films much better than IV sells.
For instance, why camera can't be a bit more distant and move around in a half circle showing the girl a lot in total and only some close-ups to show her feelings in the face instead of moving forth and back from 2 close-up positions, that is either ass close-up or face close-up? Cant that sex action be filmed in another more smooth way? Other studios can do it, why not IV?

[TheVulture]

Spot on dap-addict but what's important to note here is that this isn't a long-standing feature of IV - it has only happened with the recent batch of scenes. I think I saw you mention somewhere that you haven't seen anything by IV for quite some time so please don't get the impression that it applies to all of their scenes.

In some ways this makes it more frustrating (why the change?) but also on the plus side means it should be easier for Joachim to correct.

Speaking of which....I've just seen the trailer for the new Meghan Rain scene. Too early to say for certain as I haven't bought the scene but the trailer doesn't show any close-up so could it be that the message got through and Joachim has corrected the camerawork in time for this scene? Anyone seen this yet and able to comment on the camerawork?

[dap-addict]

Spot on dap-addict but what's important to note here is that this isn't a long-standing feature of IV - it has only happened with the recent batch of scenes.

Vulture, I noticed that heavy close up jumping already in iv225 (Gisha Forza DAPbreakin') shot in October 2018.
Please go back to that batch and check it.
Please also indicate what is a recent change for you? What you mean by recent? 2months? 6 months? from which IV scene onwards?
It would also help Joachim understand better what you mean.
Thanks!

[TheVulture]

Fair point as thinking about it I don't have all that many scenes by IV, although I have bought them periodically since joining LP and have never had a problem with the camerawork until now.

Checking my Pornbox these are I think the 4 most recent IV scenes I bought prior to the recent 2 I mention in this thread with the dodgy camerawork.

Susan Ayn IV185
Ciara Riviera IV205
Alexis Crystal IV109
Nicole Love & Nicole Red IV177

These are all truly superb scenes (some of my favourite LP scenes I would say) and there is absolutely no problem whatsoever with the camerawork. Sparing use of close-up, no zoom from memory and the girls are perfectly captured in profile throughout the scenes.

I think you are probably right that the problem has been going on longer than I suggested as these are not particularly recent scenes (albeit they are not especially old either).

Hopefully this will help Joachim.

[TheVulture]

Joachim - just to bring a little positivity I just bought the recent Lydia Black and Meghan Rain (the 1st 1-on-1) scenes and these are really good scenes. Again there are some camerawork problems for sure but they are not quite as frequent as in the Silvia Dellai and Kizzy Six scenes.

I've put brief reviews on the girls' pages if you want to take a look.

Unfortunately I think the Anastasia Rose scene (which I would otherwise have bought in a flash) might continue to elude me as the trailer is so bad camerawork wise!

Please do continue to review and correct these camerawork issues (constant moving and too much close-up) as you are otherwise making really great scenes with very hot and horny girls just now.

[joachim-kessef]

your positivity in the name of critics or insulting in the name of critics whatever keep watching and send whatever you saw that is my answer

[dap-addict]

About camerawork and cameraman attitudes:
I did a time travel to early IV scenes with a different cameraman - after I realized that camera was so much better in Venezuela recently than in OP IV200-300 phase, gladly gone now:

Look at this:
Nataly Gold - watch and see how four black guys destroy her ass IV033
https://pornbox.com/application?#watch-page/32148

IV HIT .gif:


+
some total shots, too
position change and dick insertions shown
girl keeps heels on